In response to Michael Ayton's original post, I thought that the disadvantage of 1 c4 c5 2 Nf3 Nf6 3 Nc3 Nc6 4. Interesting discussion here (and in other recent Flank opening threads on symmetrical English:- especially enjoy the various Markovich-Bpaulsen debates). I agree that the 3.d4 cd4 4.Nd4 e6 and 4.Qb6 variations are quite difficult to prove an advantage against.Īlso, White can always play 3.g3 instead, which can lead to a Symmetrical English of sorts if White plays d4, or lead to a variation within 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3 g6 4.Bg2 Bg7 5.Nf3, depending on how White/Black follows up the fianchetto. Palliser claims that Black should equalise, but I have found a few improvements over his analysis and prefer White. I don't believe Black can equalise in the 1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 e5 4.e3 Nf6 5.d4 (5.Be2 also offers good chances of a minute advantage but I prefer the direct approach) 5.cd4 6.ed4 e4 7.Ne5! (after other moves Black is completely fine). I've only just started looking at this but I may want to play it from the Black side! As mentioned earlier in the thread 3.Nc3 can be met adequately by 3.e5 and against 3.d4, Black not only play 3.cxd4 4.Nxd4 e6 (4.Qb6) but also 4.e5!? as analyzed by Palliser in Dangerous Weapons: Flank Openings. I've also been looking at the English lately from White's viewpoint and find the move order 1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 even more problematic than 2.Nf6. I personally think that 3.Nf6 is probably Black's best move after 3.Nc3 but requires the most work for this reason 3.e5 and 3.Nd4 are good practical choices.
![e4 e5 nf3 nc6 bb5 e4 e5 nf3 nc6 bb5](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_CI0KzYC0xAs/RdeOlpXvG6I/AAAAAAAASxI/0MwLGcJm4q0/s320/AabzzzzzzzzzzwRuyLopezBerlinDefense15Rxd1.gif)
I know that 4.Ng1 and 4.Ne5 is annoying if Black doesn't want a draw, but I recall that there was some sort of 4.e3 Nf3 5.Qf3 g6 and g4 or d4 line that was quite tricky for Black to meet. I know that I found a route to advantage for White against 3.Nd4, but I can't remember which line exactly for White. I haven't looked at 7.Bd6 yet after a cursory glance I prefer White after 8.Ng4 and also like the look of 8.Bg5, but I need to subject this to some proper analysis (unfortunately I don't have time this week). Another problem that maybe you've solved too is the interesting 1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nd4 variation, but at least White can choose some interesting options here too. Have you looked into 7.Bd6!? here too besides the main line of 7.Bb4? (at least I think it's the old main line. I may well look more into this variation with 7.Ne5! since it's definitely interesting.